House rules vs. book rules

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House rules vs. book rules

Post  grots life on Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:39 pm

Carrying over the discussion of the Feast of Blades topic, and this is purely speculation since the organizer for that tournament doesn't post here. I believe that the house rules they've set for that event need to be rethought. 6th edition is brand new and is a completely different game from 5th edition, and right out of the gate, many of the key rules that define 6th edition are being discarded in what I believe is an attempt to twist the new edition to become a variant of 5th edition.

An example is Mysterious Terrain. Why remove it? Because it is perceived as "random"? Well, it is something that will affect both armies equally, so no benefit is gained or lost. Does it take too long? Hmmm, roll a D6 and look at a chart. Ten seconds later, that is done and the game can begin. Don't want different tables using different Mysterious Terrain? Before the start of each round, have the tournament organizer roll once and each table uses the same result.

As for using 2000 point lists and allowing allies and a second force organization chart, those are the rules. They're in the rule book. Those rules apply to all armies equally. Why not at least try the new rules before just discarding them as broken or non-competitive? If having a rule set that resembles 5th edition is critical for running a tournament, then play the tournament with 5th edition rules.

The overall point I'm trying to make is, with a brand new edition of 40K, why not use all the rules that are in the book? How do you know that certain rules do not work until you try them?
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Re: House rules vs. book rules

Post  thecapn226 on Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:21 pm

Personally, i think a lot of it stems from the fact that people will be hard pressed to finish a game with the new rules, even while excluding ones that take a small amount of time. 10 seconds for mysterious terrain, times 6-8 pieces on the board, not including time to mark it, you figure you lose 1-2 min. Any tourny player who has had a dice down called in his last turn will agree that 2 min can be the difference between a win and a loss.

In the end, if you play in the FOB tourny you have to use their rules. If it bothers you, no one is forcing you to play. However, if you choose to play or not, complaining on the forum fixes nothing. Contact the organizer and tell him your opinion. SMG has no control over these things.
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Re: House rules vs. book rules

Post  grots life on Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:16 pm

Talking about this here is relevant. First, this is a forum, where ideas are discussed. If we don't post, the boards die. Second, if these tournament house rules stick it will affect how the game is played here on the coast. A lot of people who game here attend tournaments. On Sundays, they will want to play games in preparation for those tournaments, so they will want to play according to the rules of said tournaments. So now, if you want to get a game in on the weekend, the rules of the game are being dictated by some faraway tournament organizer. I've made my position on tournaments clear. I don't like them and won't play in them. When SMG had their tournament, I did not play but I did provide prize support. If there is another SMG tournament in the future, I won't play in it either, but I will again provide prize support because I want the club to be successful at everything it does.

As for the time constraints of a game, again, this edition is brand new. Some people will have the time and motivation to play lots and lots of games and learn the rules well. Other people may not have as much free time. There will be a period of time before the vast majority of the 40K community is familiar with the new system enough that games won't be delayed while rules are looked up and read. Furthermore, how many people couldn't afford the new $75 + tax rulebook or, like me, are waiting for the boxed set and mini-rulebook to be released? I think that all these tournaments are switching to the new system too quickly. Rather than wait for people to get a firm grasp of the new rules, they're just saying, we'll just eliminate a bunch of rules and go full speed ahead. So now, a large segment of the 40K playerbase is learning bastardized version of the game. If I were a tournament player, I personally would wait about six months before playing in any to allow time for people to learn the rules, allow Games Workshop to release FAQs for 6th edition (in fact, a new FAQ is due at the end of the month which could radically affect the rules for the Feast of Blades tournament, but it's already too late to do anything about it) and let the boxed set with the mini-rulebook to be released so players who couldn't or wouldn't buy the big one, get and learn the rules.



Last edited by grots life on Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:18 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Fixed a spelling error.)
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Re: House rules vs. book rules

Post  EmeraldWolf on Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:20 pm

Bump study
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Re: House rules vs. book rules

Post  Man-of-War on Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:04 pm

Yeah with my son going to school I can't afford the rulebook for 6th yet. Plus I don't live close enough to jaks to really go every sunday either. Usually I go on thursday cause I play warmahordes.

On another notion... Like I told you before Grots.... I'm waiting until next february if I ever get back into 40k.... It'll either be 40k or Fantasy that I'll start then.
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Re: House rules vs. book rules

Post  thecapn226 on Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:34 pm

grots life wrote:I think that all these tournaments are switching to the new system too quickly. Rather than wait for people to get a firm grasp of the new rules, they're just saying, we'll just eliminate a bunch of rules and go full speed ahead. So now, a large segment of the 40K playerbase is learning bastardized version of the game. If I were a tournament player, I personally would wait about six months before playing in any to allow time for people to learn the rules....


Thats like telling a crack head to quit cold turkey Smile but it is the point. Play or don't. You choose your opponent, and therefore can decide how you want to play and with what rules. I think a lot of people forget that considering our local meta, including me. But the key to remember is that in the end you play what is fun to you. For some that's for fun and for some that's competitive play.


Last edited by thecapn226 on Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: House rules vs. book rules

Post  The Emperor Waffle on Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:35 pm

I like your use of the word, "bastardize". lol!

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Re: House rules vs. book rules

Post  AArdvark085 on Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:19 am

thecapn226 wrote:
grots life wrote:I think that all these tournaments are switching to the new system too quickly. Rather than wait for people to get a firm grasp of the new rules, they're just saying, we'll just eliminate a bunch of rules and go full speed ahead. So now, a large segment of the 40K playerbase is learning bastardized version of the game. If I were a tournament player, I personally would wait about six months before playing in any to allow time for people to learn the rules....


Thats like telling a crack head to quit cold turkey Smile but it is the point. Play or don't. You choose your opponent, and therefore can decide how you want to play and with what rules. I think a lot of people forget that considering our local meta, including me. But the key to remember is that in the end you play what is fun to you. For some that's for fun and for some that's competitive play.

I think Capt has a great point here. Play the style of 40k that you want to play. The reason why tournament organizers have had to eliminate parts of 6th Ed is that they introduce too much randomness into the game. Tournament organizers have to work within set parameters and time limits to achieve predictable results. GW has stated that they made 6th for cinematic effect (read: informal beer and pretzels games). You must be the one who decides which play style you want to play. If you want the informal by the book cinematic game then play that way. If you want to attend tournaments, to some degree the book missions are going to be modified out of necessity. All of the bigger tournament organizers are coordinating their efforts and after the Nova should release a "tournament version of 6th ed rules" which will set the standard for most major tournaments. It will become the way to play competative 40k. I look forward to playing both types of games. I think it makes the community better as it broaden the appeal to both the competitive tournament player and the narrative cinematic player in one system.
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Re: House rules vs. book rules

Post  Necron on Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:43 am

Point .......... Set ............. Match
N
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Re: House rules vs. book rules

Post  grots life on Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:05 pm

Point .......... Set ............. Match

You've just proven my point.
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Re: House rules vs. book rules

Post  The Emperor Waffle on Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:46 pm

So when does the beer and pretzle thing happen? cheers

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Re: House rules vs. book rules

Post  AArdvark085 on Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:06 pm

Grots you have made a valid point about altering the rules for tournaments, in that it changes the game as the designers intended. But I would hope to see your return to the 40k tables playing the type of games you would like to play. I'm sure you can find people with the same gaming style who are looking for a good time playing 40k without out all the Min/Max list buffing that are found with tournament players. As far as tournaments go I would still encourage you to try and event like Adepticon which has numerous tournaments with all play styles in mind. The narrative events are well supported and attended and sounds to me just what you are looking for.
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Re: House rules vs. book rules

Post  Umbranex on Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:09 pm

I can definitely see where the tournament organizers are coming from now that it has been laid out there so well... still I have to take the side of wishing that the new rules could at least be tried for tournaments. Oh well either way I prefer fun games over the competitive tournament ones (even those are fun as well!).

Im always up for a game and Id love to try the new rules. Feel free to send me a PM Grots if you are going to be going to Jaks and want to play a game.
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game time funist

Post  mouser04 on Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:35 am

well like chad said once

i may play my ork list in a causual style [but its also compettive too] but you have to respect the way i play to
i hate power players n waac players but i will play against them too try to up the eny on them cuase you will never know you might supprise them and beat them

why i say it might be the day when the dice god favors you and not the waac n power player and they lose
the game of chance[on the dice tho only] or you play a move or do something they didnt expect you would do example

me and carl necs vrs tau he place two of them lil flyer in front of my immortals and he thought i would charge them but i didnt bite the trap i march past them and took the objective and shoot the flyer from another squad
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Re: House rules vs. book rules

Post  AllmightyDM on Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:51 pm

Just kind of on this note, where do we get our house rules from, if any?
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Re: House rules vs. book rules

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