Third Army

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Third Army

Post  AllmightyDM on Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:40 pm

So I have Dark Eldar and some Eldar and my tyranids are up for sale on Ebay. I've got shooting lists out the wazoo and looking to try something else. I'm trying to find a good starting point with marines, but I'm not sure which chapter I want to try yet. Am I correct in assuming you just buy the base battleforce for "blue" marines and paint them as whatever chapter/get shoulderpads for whatever chapter you want? I see a fair amount of players using marines, but does anyone have any opinions on more competitive chapters, except Dark Angels? I say no dark angels because hinkel is working on some. I love melee, I like terminators, I'd love an army that can still be a competitive melee army in 6th. Advice? Suggestions?

In your opinion are regular space marines competitive? Which chapters are more suited towards melee? Right now I'm somewhat biased towards blood angels, but I would be interested in picking up a chapter that could Ally (allies of convenience) with my Eldar (black templar, blood angels, dark angels, grey knights, guard, space marines, or space wolves). Basically those are my options.
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Re: Third Army

Post  Heretic Steve on Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:15 pm

Give us a link to your tyranids on ebay.

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Re: Third Army

Post  Heretic Steve on Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:16 pm

Space Wolves all the way. Best troops in 40k.

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Re: Third Army

Post  AllmightyDM on Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:26 pm

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251200430511?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

I'd take offers from club members below my listing price, as long as I don't have any bids.
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Re: Third Army

Post  Man-of-War on Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:02 pm

AllmightyDM wrote:So I have Dark Eldar and some Eldar and my tyranids are up for sale on Ebay. I've got shooting lists out the wazoo and looking to try something else. I'm trying to find a good starting point with marines, but I'm not sure which chapter I want to try yet. Am I correct in assuming you just buy the base battleforce for "blue" marines and paint them as whatever chapter/get shoulderpads for whatever chapter you want? I see a fair amount of players using marines, but does anyone have any opinions on more competitive chapters, except Dark Angels? I say no dark angels because hinkel is working on some. I love melee, I like terminators, I'd love an army that can still be a competitive melee army in 6th. Advice? Suggestions?

In your opinion are regular space marines competitive? Which chapters are more suited towards melee? Right now I'm somewhat biased towards blood angels, but I would be interested in picking up a chapter that could Ally (allies of convenience) with my Eldar (black templar, blood angels, dark angels, grey knights, guard, space marines, or space wolves). Basically those are my options.

Depends on what you want....

Black Templars are a bit dated, but can still rock. The emperor's champion lets you take a vow. Accept any challenge is now giving your marines rage the scouts in the crusade units get left out there, they have no psykers, you can put eternal warrior on a terminator armored marshal, Righteous Zeal is when you take any wound at the end of shooting make the moral and can make a consolidate move towards the nearest enemy(with a chaplain attached to the unit you choose where they go), They are the only marines now that can put 2 special weapons in a 5 man terminator squad. Their troops are 10 power armored guys and 10 scouts in a group together. You can hand out the Power of the Machine spirit onto vindicators making it to where they can move 12 and shoot the str 10 pie plate. Land raider crusader comes with multimelta and extra armor and is open to be a dedicated transport army wide.

Space Wolves has the best troop choice in the game. The Grey Hunters have access to the wolf standard which once per game can reroll 1s for overwatch before assault, 1s to hit, wound, armor saves, and if you roll a 1 with the mark of wolven guy you can reroll it too, at 10 marines they get a free flamer, melta, or plasmagun. Space wolves are a mid range army, can take 2 HQs per HQ slot in your FOC (Have to have different equipment though because they are an army of "Heroes"), Long Fangs are their devastator squad that can split fire as long as the Srg. is alive. Thunderwolf calvalry makes them be the only marines with calvalry squad in the game thus far. Rune priests for the wolves negate psyker powers on a 4+ in 24 inches, Njal stormcaller does on 3+, Logan Grimnar makes Wolf Guard as troops and they get the best gear out of all the wolves. Lone wolves will give a kill point if they don't die, but they are eternal warrior, feel no pain, and rerolls against monstrous creature and walkers, and you can kit them out however you want them. Wolf scouts have behind enemy lines which on a 3+ can move on any board edge. Wolf priests give prefer enemy of your choice at the beginning of a battle. Counter attack and acute senses army wide. They do not have a flyer and can't deepstrike the terminators in though they can ride a pod in.

Blood Angels are the master of the skys thus all their assault marines are troops and they can give up their jump packs (Jump packs for them only scatter a D6 and this is army wide.) for an almost free rhino which all their vehicles on that chassis is fast (They pay the points for it in the cost which you can see compaired to other marines) or a pod for free. Mephiston is a great beat stick. They also can field chaplains as elites. Death company are expensive, can only field 1 squad, is troop choice that can't score, but being lead by a chaplain will kill anything they hit with rerolls to hit and wound on all their weapons on the charge, plus they have rage, feel no pain, and relentless. The red thirst is army wide rule and on a 1 replaces ATSKNF for fearless and furious charge. Sanguinary priests can be attached to units, has a 6 inch feel no pain/furious charge bubble around him, and can be kitted out with a jump pack, can take 3 per elite slot. Can field death company dreadnauts with blood talons for the "I'm going to kill this whole unit of non-2+ save guys this turn" feeling, can only field 1 for every 5 in a death company squad, and is a troop choice that isn't scoring. Also the only marines that can field librarian dreadnauts. Astorath the Grim removes the 0-1 limit on death company squads. Land raiders of all types are dedicated transports. They also have the combat squads thing that vanilla marines have which I'll go over with at a later time. Also have many choices in their codex that vanilla marines have as well. Also has the stormraven which is a flyer.

Vanilla marines are the balanced army from which all the 3 others above are supposedly balanced against. Combat tactics army wide lets them fail a morale test auto on your choice to fall back. The only codex with the thunderfire cannon, Ironclad dreadnauts, legion of the damned which their armor save is an Inv save, master of the forge makes Ironclad and regular dreadnauts as elites and heavy support, and captain on bike makes bike squads of 5 models or more as troops. Special characters have different effects for the army plus are pretty good in combat. Calgar lets you choose to pass or fail morale checks at will. Sicarius gives a squad of tactical marines either tank hunter, infiltrate, scout, and something else I can't remember lol. Pedro Kantor of the Crimson fists replaces combat tactics for stubborn, lets sternguard marines count as scoring, and friendlies within 24 have +1 attack. Lysander of the Imperial Fists replaces combat tactics for stubborn, lets you bolster a defense for extra cover and the bolter squad he is attached to gets to reroll all bolter shots. Shrike of the Raven Guard takes combat tactics away for fleet army wide, the squad he's attached to gets to infiltrate period. Vulkan of the Salamanders takes combat tactics away to twin link all flamers, heavy flamers, meltas, and multimeltas army wide... plus mastercraft thunderhammers. Khan gives all the dedicated transports in his army plus units outflank taking away combat tactics to do so, on a bike he makes bike squads of 5 models or more as troops. Combat squads is for every infantry unit that is a full squad to split in half. So tacticals, scouts, devastators, sternguard, vanguard, terminators of both types, and the bike squad can do this. Also has the storm talon which is a flyer.

GreyKnights are supposedly the best of the best and you pay the points for it. They are nice, but not my style. Someone else would have to fill you in on them. It's more like codex Ordo Malleous/Inquisition.
...............................................................................................................
The black templars, blood angels, and wolves can be kitted out to do melee if you want or long range even though it's severely anti fluffy for black templars to do so lol.
Vanilla marines are still all around good.
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Re: Third Army

Post  The Emperor Waffle on Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:20 pm

Heretic Steve wrote:Space Wolves all the way. Best troops in 40k.

I'll disagree with you there sir. For the points and versatility, the standard grey knight is a bit better. For just 5 points more per model, you get a 24" assault 2 weapon, force swords, psychic powers, and deepstrike. That is the stock troop, unless you want to count the terminators too, which are troops in the codex. The upgrades are fairly nice as well. When the whole sqaud can run around with heavy bolter str for 20pts, you can't beat the cost. The longfangs aren't even comparable then due 5 fewer shots, 5 more points, and limited mobility. The GK troops can even compete with the Wolf Guard Packs in points and versatility. Just to have the same load out with the GK troops will cost roughly 31 points. They can't even have the force weapons or psyker powers and they will have to buy a drop pod or terminator armour to deepstrike.

There are other troops that I'm sure could best the space wolf troops, but i know GKs pretty well. I look forward to your rebuttle sir. cheers

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Re: Third Army

Post  AllmightyDM on Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:50 pm

Thanks for all the thoughtful responses, right now I'm slowly reading my way through the codexes and weighing options. I'm still making my way through vanilla marines. I can't help but stepping on some toes (JP - grey knights, Ryan - space wolves, Hinkel - Dark Angels, Charlie - blood angels?) with almost anything I choose, we have several people in our Tuesday games that will be playing those armies and we have tried to have alot of variety. I have debated holding off until the Eldar release comes out in July (supposedly) and buying more than just what I need for allies. Since I'm the only Eldar player in my local gaming circle. I guess the most important part will be who's writting the codex Laughing
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Re: Third Army

Post  Man-of-War on Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:51 pm

AllmightyDM wrote:Thanks for all the thoughtful responses, right now I'm slowly reading my way through the codexes and weighing options. I'm still making my way through vanilla marines. I can't help but stepping on some toes (JP - grey knights, Ryan - space wolves, Hinkel - Dark Angels, Charlie - blood angels?) with almost anything I choose, we have several people in our Tuesday games that will be playing those armies and we have tried to have alot of variety. I have debated holding off until the Eldar release comes out in July (supposedly) and buying more than just what I need for allies. Since I'm the only Eldar player in my local gaming circle. I guess the most important part will be who's writting the codex Laughing

ah so your like me.... if other people you game with does it then you don't... Well everywhere you go there will be more space marine players of all flavors than any other race out there being played. Here is another idea for you.. You could read up on the space marine primarchs to see which you like the best. Usually if you like that primarch you'll like the space marine force he is a father to. Lexicanum has some really good articles on all 18 first founding legions and primarchs.
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Re: Third Army

Post  Man-of-War on Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:18 pm

The Emperor Waffle wrote:
Heretic Steve wrote:Space Wolves all the way. Best troops in 40k.

I'll disagree with you there sir. For the points and versatility, the standard grey knight is a bit better. For just 5 points more per model, you get a 24" assault 2 weapon, force swords, psychic powers, and deepstrike. That is the stock troop, unless you want to count the terminators too, which are troops in the codex. The upgrades are fairly nice as well. When the whole sqaud can run around with heavy bolter str for 20pts, you can't beat the cost. The longfangs aren't even comparable then due 5 fewer shots, 5 more points, and limited mobility. The GK troops can even compete with the Wolf Guard Packs in points and versatility. Just to have the same load out with the GK troops will cost roughly 31 points. They can't even have the force weapons or psyker powers and they will have to buy a drop pod or terminator armour to deepstrike.

There are other troops that I'm sure could best the space wolf troops, but i know GKs pretty well. I look forward to your rebuttle sir. cheers

What steve meant was points cost.... what your suggesting there is a ten man squad for your strike squad with psybolt ammunition will cost 220 points... 30 points shy of a land raider. To do more bells and whistles would make them even more expensive. A ten man squad of grey hunters with standard and 2 plasguns is 170. Which with the math allows 50 points to be focused somewhere else in the list overall. Sure the grey hunters would be more expensive with a hidden power weapon, fist, or mark of wulven in it, but that seems like a popular/cheap loadout lately and they get the job done. His point was you get more bang for your point price.

Also Long Fangs with 5 plasma cannons would make short work of greyknights or any other power armored/TDA infantry for that matter. Which long fangs shouldn't really be compaired to troops of other codex cause they are heavy support.

Sorry Waffle my inner space wolf came out there Twisted Evil
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Re: Third Army

Post  grots life on Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:39 pm

Stop beating yourself up and just get Orks.
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Re: Third Army

Post  thecapn226 on Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:02 pm

Think ahead. Vanilla space marines are the most versatile armies. They aren't one trick ponies, they are everything. When the current codex came out they were amazing. Now they are a little dated, but just ask anyone about the NOLA Saints marine army and you'll get a ton of hard fought losses against a vanilla army. The one thing that keeps the boys in blue alive is GW will never forsake their main money earner. All gamers buy vanilla marines, Hell I use them as my chaos guys, but they still sell. You'll always have a viable army, and always have a product people want.
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