standardized forge world/games workshop

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standardized forge world/games workshop

Post  TauMongoose on Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:08 pm

With forge world and games workshop being one company and with games workshop publishing books that update forge world models to be legal in 40k standard missions, are we likely to see a change in SMG's view on using this approved, but optional, material?
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Re: standardized forge world/games workshop

Post  Hinkel on Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:25 pm

It will need to be brought up for a vote, probably at our April or may event. It can be brought up and see what everyone wants
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Re: standardized forge world/games workshop

Post  fulange on Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:45 pm

I, myself, would love to see this happen. I thoroughly enjoy diversity and variety. while balance may be a concern, i dont think it to be too great an issue. especially if people focus on theme and story rather than awesome combos ect... perhaps if compision were part of the score at events and such....
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Re: standardized forge world/games workshop

Post  grots life on Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:10 pm

Forge World isn't hated on as much as mysterious terrain. I'd like to see both of them used in games.
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Re: standardized forge world/games workshop

Post  thecapn226 on Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:41 am

As long as people have the correct book and not a stack of printed off papers I don't see a problem.
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Re: standardized forge world/games workshop

Post  CKO on Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:41 pm

thecapn226 wrote:As long as people have the correct book and not a stack of printed off papers I don't see a problem.

Who can afford those books? Let alone the models.
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Re: standardized forge world/games workshop

Post  Hinkel on Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:54 pm

CKO wrote:
thecapn226 wrote:As long as people have the correct book and not a stack of printed off papers I don't see a problem.

Who can afford those books? Let alone the models.

Quite a few people from what I saw at the last apoc event
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Re: standardized forge world/games workshop

Post  Despoiler on Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:13 am

I don't think its about affording them so much as not wanting to sink money into a book they may only use once a year..
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Re: standardized forge world/games workshop

Post  thecapn226 on Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:42 pm

How about the people that don't want to buy a series of books just to see what an opponent might bring. And reading the rules quickly before playing while trying to read mission and set up really isn't fair.
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Re: standardized forge world/games workshop

Post  TauMongoose on Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:48 pm

Trust in ur opponent to play honest and know his army?

U already trust him to know the latest FAQ.

Edit: also, if tournaments start allowing forge world on a regular basis, and it's of interest of u, why not get the book?

U already bring a CRB and ur codex

If someone wanted to use an ally out of another codex would they not have that codex there as well?
/edit
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Re: standardized forge world/games workshop

Post  Man-of-War on Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:30 pm

I've brought this subject up in the past in a previous post.

http://southmsgamers.forumotion.com/t372-an-idea-for-more-flavor-to-our-games-characters-needed

The same results was crickets chirping from most except for Emeraldwolf which I thankyou for replying man. This also discouraged me mostly. In this post I put up a site that had the rules written out on his forum for the Badab war characters.

http://huntersofthewarp.forumakers.com/t2138-badab-war-special-characters

I have a copy of the IA 9 and 10 books and this guy is on the money with the rules there. I know we voted on it as a club that year I posted this and for those that where there said they had no problem in letting the Badab War characters into the club functions and playing against them. Just didn't know if Jaks would allow it though.

So if this does come to pass I possibly will be working on an army to the side for playing 40k again. If this doesn't I won't even bother.
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Re: standardized forge world/games workshop

Post  Dr. Hans Zarkov on Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:16 am

Listen to this podcast talk about the issues that FW brings up. I believe they do a really good job.

http://theheroic28s.blogspot.com/2013/01/episode-60-codex-space-wolves-p2.html
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Re: standardized forge world/games workshop

Post  fulange on Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:19 am

I'm sure every one of us on the pro forge world side of the fence has their army or faction they want to play. be it death corps of krieg, or eldar corsairs. they may be more or less powerful, i personally feel that opening up forge world or at least the non-codex materials can of worms would do wonders to increase army diversity and variety. Thus enabling greater ability for players to establish their narritive. It is the narritive which matters to me, thats why im on this side of the fence. I so thoroughly enjoyed playing rogue pirates at last weeks apocc game that i cant wait to do it again!

From the "forge world is super good" side of the arguement, is the disparity between a black templars army and a dark angels army any less severe? I mean, between forge world working their rear detachments off pumping out faq and errata to bring everything to 6e, and the infamous mat ward 'dexes of dewm, is forge world really that good?

Edit: someone posted while I was posting... ooh! A podcast? I'll check it out!
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Re: standardized forge world/games workshop

Post  fulange on Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:10 pm

Also, since were on the topic, is there a difference between Imperial Armour and Non-Codex Materials? Army builder seems to think so, and i can certainly see some logic behind the differentiation, but is there anything close to an official tagline? from GW or the club?

EDIT: Also, if we look at what models/units are 40k approved, there are (so far) only a few models actually "40k approved." They were printed in IA 11, so they are only eldar and space wolves. So that doesnt seem to be a fair method of deciding what is legal... because that may give those armies an unfair advantage over the others (although I dont agree) that dont have any 40k legal stamps...
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Re: standardized forge world/games workshop

Post  Man-of-War on Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:52 pm

fulange wrote:Also, since were on the topic, is there a difference between Imperial Armour and Non-Codex Materials? Army builder seems to think so, and i can certainly see some logic behind the differentiation, but is there anything close to an official tagline? from GW or the club?

EDIT: Also, if we look at what models/units are 40k approved, there are (so far) only a few models actually "40k approved." They were printed in IA 11, so they are only eldar and space wolves. So that doesnt seem to be a fair method of deciding what is legal... because that may give those armies an unfair advantage over the others (although I dont agree) that dont have any 40k legal stamps...

Also FW made some FAQ to bring the psykers from IA 9 and 10 to 6th. Also the Chaos Lord, daemon prince, and sorceror from the seige of Vraks they made FAQ for to bring up to 6th also.

The biggest thing that people fuss over on the psyker FAQ is that Loth can choose 6 from a branch of psyker powers in the CRB and he's Lvl 3 psyker with the ability to make his artificer armor to be a 2++ from spending a warp charge.
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Re: standardized forge world/games workshop

Post  grots life on Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:45 pm

This topic is making my head hurt. It's a game.
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Re: standardized forge world/games workshop

Post  fulange on Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:47 pm

After listening to that podcast I did some thinking... Here is what I have concluded:

The only reason I care about forge world stuff for space marines is so that i can make an assault-ey space marine force, and after the apoc event I realized that all the special rules and crazy army buffs that the various forge world HQ's granted (even with 3 in one army!) are still not as awesome in assault as a regular blood angels army. So, when it comes to space marines, ill probably just "coat of paint" the blood angels rules into a rogue (read pirate/rogue trader) chapter that I enjoy playing. So, space marines dont need forgeworld (For me anyway)

From an eldar perspective: There are 2 really kewl things with eldar that I love about forgeworld, and they are so cool, that these rules are pretty much holding my brain hostage until i get to play the crap outta them. The eldar corsairs, are really awesome, fun and mobile, they dont hit as hard as I may like them to, but they can still be a blast to play, so I enjoy them. And I wanna try the wraith army (which means a wraithseer list) a few times, so far i have only been able to play it on vassal. Neither are terribly competitive lists, but are tons of fun.

From a tournament/competitive play perspective: I dont really care about tourney's or competitive play anymore. Having fun with pick up games and scenario missions is more fun to me than tourneys so I dont really care what rules the tourney's are being played with. If the rules arent fun enough for me to enjoy the play of the game, then I simply wont show up. I want to support the club and all, but im living in lucedale now, and thats too far of a hike to make it out to jaks or anything like that in the near (or far) future.

In response to that podcast: The perspective of that podcast seems fairly unified, they dont want army expression, they want reasonable competitive play. They, as players and TO's, are entitled to run events and express their opinions however they want. I dont mind. Heck, if any of them showed up here, id be happy to play a few game with them. But, forgeworld stuff offers to me a lot of really kewl army options. I proxy almost everything, so shipping costs, and model fancy-ness dont matter in the least bit to me. The joy in the game for me is in the strategy and narrative.

When the time comes to make a decision on any rules for the games we play in this club we must make it from the position of fun for our hobby for ALL OF THE PLAYERS involved, not just the casual ones (like me) and not just the competitive ones. Just as when we play the game, we must play for the fun of all the players, not just ourselves. Selfish players are lonely players.

---stepps off soapbox---

TL;DNR: Grots life is right, Im gonna have fun with this game no-matter what! And I will do my best to make sure my opponets do too. If I cant bring lists i find fun, then, whatever.
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Re: standardized forge world/games workshop

Post  TauMongoose on Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:09 pm

There's what, 15 different armies now? And with the rules allowing for cross-army lists, and a large number of participating players in our events, how feasible is it to study every codex, every FAQ, and create the perfect army list against every possibility?

So adding forgeworld units to the range of possibilities doesn't change much when it comes to "meta'ing" armies

only the players with extra money can afford forgeworld??

Come on, 40k has always been an expensive hobby. Anyone know what the price of 1 standard dreadnought is?
People who want to use dreadnoughts save their money for one in the same way someone would save money for a forgeworld model.

Another note, doesn't our group generally allow proxied models so long as they resemble what they are supposed to.

How does forgeworld use strange and overpowering rules compared to regular GW? Isn't it possible already to get models with many different psychic powers and awesome saves? Some reason my mind turns to ultramarines and eldar allied together...correct me if im wrong.

If players wish to not play against forgeworld because of incompatibility, cost, and unique abilities that are not available to their armies, then may i ask as a Tau player if we can play tournaments without fliers?

That's crazy talk, ain't it ;-)

Does including forgeworld into a tournament take away from enjoying a competitive event?
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Re: standardized forge world/games workshop

Post  Man-of-War on Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:15 pm

@Fulange: Man you live not so far from my place. Lucedale is only about a twenty to twenty five minute drive from me if you take hwy 26.
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yeppers

Post  mouser04 on Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:13 am

heck i live vancleave 20 to 30 min drive but like u said everyone has things they cannot do or things they can do
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Re: standardized forge world/games workshop

Post  EmeraldWolf on Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:02 pm

I say do what makes you happy Smile I know it sounds kind of hippy-ish but we're in this hobby to enjoy ourselves. Try it if it results in the loss of that enjoyment then kick it out. If i created(and i plan to lol) an apocalypse data sheet for a "rune cannon"
and my opponent(s) agreed to it then its game time. As for tournaments they're also meant for fun so i dont see why we do the same cant be done. If fairness is a concern elect or appoint a judge and treat it like soccer( in soccer even if its a bad call the refs word is final) lol Cool
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Re: standardized forge world/games workshop

Post  grots life on Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:41 pm

I've been reading the news, soccer games are fixed!
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