APOC Critique Time

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APOC Critique Time

Post  Hinkel on Sun Aug 18, 2013 1:28 pm

So this was the clubs first 6th edition APOC game, we found things that we liked and things we didn't. So please lets talk about so we can make the next game more enjoyable

From me -
Likes and changes i would like to see form the comments and actions form yesterday:
- APOC explosions on all super heavy's
- Instead of 45 min turns lets make them 1 hour. 45 min was fine until assaults started then more then half the time they could not be finished.
- 4 round game, i believe we can complete and keep focus on the game with 4 rounds
- 10 min breaks between each round and a 20 min lunch break. more then this and we will be playing too long.
This is a good start so everyone else lets hear your input.

This is not a flame war either and flaming post will be deleted. So let the discussions begin


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Re: APOC Critique Time

Post  Chaos Pat on Sun Aug 18, 2013 2:20 pm

i agree with all the statements mentioned above but we need more imperial players! word bearers may like killing xenos, but we LOVE killing imperial scum! so we need more of them to sacrifice to the dark gods.
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Re: APOC Critique Time

Post  fulange on Sun Aug 18, 2013 3:50 pm

Greg and I discussed it on the way home, the change from 45 to one hour for turns is a great idea, but I also think that the whole team needs to stay in the same phase. Perhaps have the organizer declare (once everyone reports ready) that the team is now in shooting or now in assault or whatever.

Also, it felt like there were too many big guns on one side, too many superheavy weapons & vehicles were on one team. I doubt i was the only one to notice people getting frustrated. Apoc is destructive, given, but without any return fire, (of a relivent strength) its hardly fair. Sure, destroying your opponent is the whole point of the game, but im sure a small bit of regulation would go far to encourage the fairness and reduce the occurance of a negative play experience.
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Re: APOC Critique Time

Post  CrazzyJimmy on Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:34 pm

The Imperium Class Titan that was used, where are the stats for it? Imperial Armory? This is for me to be able to see the stats on the model, and also to see if we can still use the Imperial Armory Apoc stuff. Beyond that, the only problem I had was people trying to hurry up and do things out of order. I understand that people want to do as much as they can in the time they have, but I agree with Fulang in that the turns need to be taken together.

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APOC Critique Time

Post  Necron on Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:16 pm

Having had time to reflect on the event as a whole, let me say I think it was suburb for our first real venture into the world of APOC.   I do have a few observations and thoughts.  I will amplify one each when further explanation might be helpful.  So right to it:

For me -

- APOC explosions on all super heavy's  - a real must for the full impact of APOC

- Instead of 45 min turns lets make them 1 hour. 45 min was fine until assaults started then more then half the time they could not be finished. Here I will run on a little ----  I believe the Warmaster is responsible for keeping his/her team on schedule.  In fact, I think the entire game once started can be regulated between the two Warmasters.  Each warmaster should move his team from phase to phase.  Take input from each warlord as to whether or not Divine Intervention requirements are met but them should announce this to the other warmaster.  He should coordinate Deep strike and then move to general movement phase, shooting and assault.  If the warmasters agree isolated actions can continue out of phase but everyone should know they are out of phase.  The example that comes to mine is the Maloc's deep strike attack.  If there are several deep strike attacks to resolve they can be worked out and still allow the rest of the army to move.  After movement is complete and deep strike attacks and vector strikes are resolved the whole army can move to shooting and on to Assault.  The point is here the entire process can be and should be managed by the two Warmasters.

- To get everyone on the same sheet of paper once the Warmaster is selected, the game should include 30 min of team organization.  This to discuss the battle plan, select Strategic Assets, determine Warmaster and warlord traits and to determine physic powers.
- 4 round game, i believe we can complete and keep focus on the game with 4 rounds

- 2 rounds between scheduled breaks.....  This is different from what was discussed after the game and is different from the test game and different from I was arguing for with Hink. I believe I understand why GW suggests several turns between scheduled breaks.  With a break each turn there are several SA that would never leave the board and I believe for playability that GW and Forge World did not intend for these SAs always be deployed but rather only once during the time between breaks .... most of these SAs are in the Any Army category.

- 20 min breaks between each round and a 25 min lunch break. more then this and we will be playing too long.  Hink this just 5 min longer than you suggested....

- It is important for new players to know that this is not 40k but APOC..It is not a giant 40k game..  General 40k units do not survive a D-Weapon hit.  No runs no hits no errors, NO SAVES .....  This is a surprise to most new players.  The only defense is to keep the big guns focused on other big guns and you do that by a relative balance of "titan hull points" and D-Weapons.  Each Warmaster should report the number of "Titan Hull points" and "D-Weapon shots" to the Game Master... Neither sides titan hull points or D- shots should exceed the other side Points and shots by more than say 10%.,,,....Now I'm not sure these are exact numbers but by my count in our game Chaos had some 90 Titan Hull points and some 32 D-Shots .....  Nids led Xenos and other allies team had 62 Titan Hull points and GCreature wounds and 6 D - Shots.  Even with this disparity the game score in the end was a solid victory but not a complete run-a-way.  Now you can discuss this point and include GC Str 10 shots and void shields but the point is some rule of thumb should be established to balance the big stuff ..... it will make the game more balanced, playable and fun ......

- I also believe that scenario based games can allow us to play three teams on the board.  I am convinced that three smaller more closely coordinated teams will move along as fast as the two extended teams we played.  Particularly if the 30 min coordination at the start is implemented...

N
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APOC Critique Time

Post  Necron on Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:22 pm

And

- We should post the game ground rules on the meetings site in advance of teh game....

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Re: APOC Critique Time

Post  Chaos Pat on Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:02 pm

CrazzyJimmy wrote:The Imperium Class Titan that was used, where are the stats for it? Imperial Armory? This is for me to be able to see the stats on the model, and also to see if we can still use the Imperial Armory Apoc stuff. Beyond that, the only problem I had was people trying to hurry up and do things out of order. I understand that people want to do as much as they can in the time they have, but I agree with Fulang in that the turns need to be taken together.
look up "emperor titan datasheet" on google, it will be a pdf format and will more than likely be the first result on the list. games workshop created it and put it up on their website back when they put apoc datasheets on the site, but they have since taken that section off the site.
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Re: APOC Critique Time

Post  CrazzyJimmy on Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:53 pm

Thanks! So the last question remains, is Forge World Imperial Armory allowed for future SMG Apoc games?

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Re: APOC Critique Time

Post  Hinkel on Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:51 pm

Yes, infact the new IA update just came out for some of the apoc items. Also in the Games workshop apoc book it tells you how to convert over old stat sheets of other apoc stuff that hasn't been updated yet to the new game play until and if an update comes out. So yes in all Apoc games all books from IA are allowed.
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