WargamesCon List

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WargamesCon List

Post  kelmar40k on Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:44 pm

Ok, so first things first, I'm under no delusions of "winning" wargamescon. That being said, I'd also like to not completely suck donkey there either.

I have been getting some games in and what I am trying to do is compress a list to not give up as many kill points. I am getting good enough at the game that I can make sure I have good chance of winning/contesting objectives. What has been happening lately is that I'll bring a one or two landspeeders and an attack bike and while they do their job they do so at the expense of kill points.

Another issue I'm having is I either use my TH/SS terminators as a distraction to get shot up or I end sitting them somewhere stupid trying NOT to get them shot up. One of these days, I'll figure out how to use them properly.

My #1 favorite unit in my dex has to be Sternguard. They don't care for CC but man... you get within 30" of them, to 24" to 12" and you are going to take some serious wounds. So my list will be centered around Sternguard which means Kantor (Ultramarined up, of course)

Here is my compressed, don't give up the kill points list. It has 50 points to spare.

The thought is to open up first turn with all the Lazcannon shots to wreck any vehicles on the opponents side and to advance the sternguard letting the enemy walk into their fire. I have lists WITH terminators and without.

Without adds a full more (10) man Sternguard squad a la the same build as the others and fills out the Tac squads allowing for combat squadding of the RL into the backfield.

Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome.

Thanks!

HQ Kantor

Elite Termies LC/LC (2)TH/SS (3)
Landraider/ Crusader
MultiMelta
Extra Armor

Elite Sternguard (10)
Lazcannon
Meltagun
Rhino

Elite Sternguard (10)
Lazcannon
Meltagun
Rhino

Troops Tac Squad (5)
Laz/Plaz

Troops Tac Squad (5)
Laz/Plaz

Heavy Predator
Autocannon
Laz Sponsons

Heavy Predator
Autocannon
Laz Sponsons

Heavy Predator
Autocannon
Laz Sponsons



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Re: WargamesCon List

Post  EmeraldWolf on Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:48 pm

Got some shooty vulnerabilities in there good sir, but itll get ya stuck in and be fun Smile
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Re: WargamesCon List

Post  CKO on Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:12 pm

I would go with a regular landraider to match the lascannon theme of the army.

I have never played against large sternguard units but they have all the tools to be great, I would try to take advantage of their combi weapons as you can still shoot your special rounds having 2 las and 2-4 combi-meltaguns might be a little bit better.

Besides that practice, practice, and practice find out the weaknesses of your list and try to fix them with better tactics if that doesnt work then you might consider buying or using different units.
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Re: WargamesCon List

Post  Man-of-War on Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:33 pm

Out of the special characters for the vanilla codex... I don't really like Lysander or Kantor simply cause of stubborn lol. I don't like staying to the bitter end... The sternguard scoring is the only reason I'd take kantor so you did good there.... I wouldn't put lascannons with the sternguard because if they disembark from a rhino after it moved you can't shoot and usually from my experience if they don't take out whatever it is they are shooting at they get mowed down in closecombat or the enemies shooting next turn. Even though the lascannons are cheaper for them than for devastator squads... I'd actually do two meltas in the squad with some combis like CKO suggested...

Also my personal preference for tactical squads is a ten man, sarge with PF and combi melta, Melta, and lascannon. With a razorback transport... One combat squad will have the sarge, melta, and ride. The other with lascannon camp the objective and hit targets of opportunity with the lascannon...

But again like chad said practice practice and practice....
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Re: WargamesCon List

Post  grots life on Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:13 pm

Maybe add some flamers for all the Necron scarabs you know will be there en mass.
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Re: WargamesCon List

Post  Man-of-War on Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:37 pm

yeah true that cause you know alot of people will be there that are bandwagon jumpers.... I've read somewhere that this one guy was worrying about blood angels and wolves. He shows up a month or so after grey knights released and the metagame shifted to grey knights.... everyone and their grandmother had greyknights....
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Re: WargamesCon List

Post  kelmar40k on Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:20 am

Great feedback. I will play with the list more today and see what I come up with.

"I wouldn't put lascannons with the sternguard because if they disembark from a rhino after it moved you can't shoot "

This caught me as odd as it makes it sound like the entire unit cannot shoot instead of just the lazcannon. My thought on that is this, if I have to move either something bad happened or I'm going for the kill.

See, and let me know if I'm wrong here, I'll be sitting in the pillbox until the enemy hits roughly 30" then I can hop out, depending on what's coming, and start firing bolter shots. I need to start shooting 2+ wound shots at 24". That being the case, even if I roll the rhino up to get the 24" mark, I can jump out and shoot 9 2+ shots which is fine with me as the advance.

As long as whatever it is advances on foot, even fleeting I will get 2 rounds of shooting into them to soften them up. I am thinking of putting PF back into the sternguard units.

The important thing with the lazshots is to wreck the transport units... I need to tinker and practice practice practice. I'll post a revised list a bit later.


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Re: WargamesCon List

Post  kelmar40k on Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:26 am

Here's an update. Work is boring today. This is no termies. Plenty of wounds on 2+ tho.

Kantor

Sternguard (9)
Powerfist
Lazcannon
Meltagun
Rhino

Sternguard (10)
Lazcannon
Meltagun
Rhino

Sternguard (10)
Lazcannon
Meltagun
Rhino

Tac Squad (10)
Powerfist
Meltagun
Missile Launcher
Laz/Plas

Tac Squad (10)
Powerfist
Meltagun
Missile Launcher
Laz/Plas

Predator
Autocannon
Laz Sponsons

Predator
Autocannon
Laz Sponsons

Predator
Autocannon
Laz Sponsons
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Re: WargamesCon List

Post  Man-of-War on Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:26 pm

My apologies.... I didn't mean the whole squad of sternguard can't fire... I was talking about the model with the las cannon itself in the squad after it moved. Also I misunderstood your plans with the list too probably cause I was tired that night from work.
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Re: WargamesCon List

Post  kelmar40k on Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:24 pm

No worries at all. I'm so new to this I have to make sure I haven't fogotten something!
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Re: WargamesCon List

Post  CKO on Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:23 am

Do not take out the terminators you take them out, they will eat your few transports alive.
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Re: WargamesCon List

Post  Man-of-War on Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:31 am

Your kinda right about that.... assault termies are the single best closecombat unit in the game for 200 points.... But I think this man is trying to do alot with sternguard instead which will make his list extremely shooty without the balanced approach that alot of vanilla marine players go for now a days I see.
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Re: WargamesCon List

Post  kelmar40k on Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:02 pm

So then... this list crumpled this weeken against a very good Daemons player.

The problem with the Sternguard is if they all get out of the tin box to destroy an incoming assaulty unit and don't kill it. They fold.

I was multi assaulted with blood crushers and a DP on one squad and both sternguard units just got eaten. I'm sure someone with 10 terminators could do it too since the Sternguard have no Invulnerable save. Back to the more balanced drawing board I guess.
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Re: WargamesCon List

Post  Man-of-War on Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:14 pm

Yup... actually what one of my earlier posts was about, but you just have to put it down as a lesson learned... Sometimes you can use the rhinos to stave off an assault by positioning them between your squad and theirs so try that next time. Sometimes I have to admit that I'm over zealous with things and that's usually when it gets destroyed... That's when I really think I'll kill something and that's when my dice usually give up on me and I don't hit anything or don't wound anything...
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Re: WargamesCon List

Post  kelmar40k on Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:27 pm

Ya, one of those things... It looked good in my head!

New list is more balanced but I think it might be lite on troops. Thoughts?

It's still at the 14 kill point mark since I squadroned the Landspeeders.

HQ Libby
Terminator Null Zone/ Gate of Infinity

Elite Termies LC/LC (2)TH/SS (3)
Landraider/ Crusader
MultiMelta
Extra Armor

Elite Sternguard (10)
Combi Melta (5)
Powerfist
Rhino

Troops Tac Squad (10)
Power Fist
Meltagun
MultiMelta
Rhino

Troops Tac Squad (5)
Power Fist
Laz/Plaz

Troops Scouts Snipers (5)
Telion
Missile Launcher

Heavy Predator
Autocannon
Laz Sponsons

Heavy Predator
Autocannon
Laz Sponsons

Heavy Predator
Autocannon
Heavy Bolter

Fast Att Landspeeders (3)
MM/HF


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Re: WargamesCon List

Post  Man-of-War on Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:43 pm

Nullzone is the bane of daemons for vanilla marines. Also really good against anything with a good Invul save. You got flexibility with the 10 man squad of tacticals.. If it's a Objective game you can combat squad to sit tight on a objective. The scouts are good for sitting on an objective as well. The termies will be a good addition along with the land raider. It'll give you some flexibility with your libby can either join the termies in the raider or sit with the sternguard and gate all over the place. Preds are always good and speeders are pretty cheap... All and all a good all around list...
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Re: WargamesCon List

Post  thecapn226 on Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:54 am

Sternguard in a drop pod are amazing. Not so much against daemons because of their deployment, but against other armies its a deadly sniper unit. Combat squad with multiple Combi melta for tank armies, or drop onto a high vantage point and start shooting.
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Re: WargamesCon List

Post  EmeraldWolf on Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:56 am

Ive been reading up on thunderfire cannons theyre pretty popular right now and for good reason!
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Re: WargamesCon List

Post  Man-of-War on Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:31 am

Yeah they're good anti infantry.
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Re: WargamesCon List

Post  kelmar40k on Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:58 am

I've used the Sternguard scalpel against Blood Angels and IG to great effect before.

Drop Podding right into a backfield or right in front of the gunline. Depending on the list, I like to do 5 combi meltas and 5 combi plasmas. You can drop a landraider and the terminators inside by combat squadding out of the drop pod but the rolls have to be with you. Even if they aren't, you will do some nasty damage.

Also, you can throw in either a captain or Termie libby with Gate of Infinity. The captain is nice because you can disembark him (most times) out of coherency so he will leave the combat squads and can fire at a 3rd target if necessary. Libby is nice with Gate so that if any of them live they can get repositioned. Drop in a Deathwind missile launcher and you have brought serious pain to the enemy frontline.

The biggest thing to realize when doing this is, you threw 335-500 points to get eaten and you have to make sure it's worth it because you either drop them on the other army or in your back field as objective holders. Using the libby with gate is slightly better. It's undoubtedly fun when it works, but the other 50% of the time you are left wondering why you did it.
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Re: WargamesCon List

Post  Man-of-War on Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:03 am

Yeah it's alot of points to throw away as a suicide unit.
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Re: WargamesCon List

Post  Orikl on Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:47 pm

Kunnin N Kwik wrote:Your kinda right about that.... assault termies are the single best closecombat unit in the game for 200 points.... But I think this man is trying to do alot with sternguard instead which will make his list extremely shooty without the balanced approach that alot of vanilla marine players go for now a days I see.

i believe you forget about genestealers Smile
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Re: WargamesCon List

Post  Man-of-War on Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:59 pm

Genestealers I didn't forget about man.. Didn't meant to offend the tyranid players out there. They are the best surprise assault troops in the game with outflanking and fleet 3 attacks on charge, In 6, and rending for 14 points thats 14 for 196... But Regular vanilla marine terminators with TH/SS on them all is 40 points each for 3 attacks on the charge str 8 power weapons sure strikes at last, but with a 2+/3++ I've had them survive myself... that's 200 points for base 5 guys. Roughly the same amount of points, but the Tyranid player would be hard pressed to find anything they have to match for the points with killy power... If they get the charge then possibly that's if the guy fails by rolling a 1 on armour save or a 1-2 on the invul when you have rending. If the terminators got the charge possibly not. It would depend largely on how each person rolls though and tactics that are implied during the encounter.... In numbers they would yes if you had the full twenty with alot of rending rolls. Also if you don't get the charge off when facing the terminators would be a big difference too. It would be the difference between 42 attacks and 28 attacks if you didn't. Then you have to hit and wound, but I'm not getting into math hammer about this and not trying to start an arguement. They are both really good choppy units, but stats pound for pound the terminator with stormshield and hammer is better though in my opinion for the roll they play in the vanilla codex.
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Re: WargamesCon List

Post  kelmar40k on Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:21 am

Now... I don't have the vindicator yet but I've been reading up on them and have come up with this list that I sorely want to try. Now, the sternguard squads are kind of light with being only 6 but they are now in laz/plaz. Also, there is now a full 8 terminators in the crusader. Thoughts?

HQ Libby
Terminator

Elite Termies LC/LC (2)TH/SS (5)
Landraider/ Crusader
MultiMelta
Extra Armor

Elite Sternguard (6)
Combi Melta (2)
Powerfist
Laz/Plaz

Elite Sternguard (6)
Combi Melta (2)
Powerfist
Laz/Plaz

Troops Tac Squad (10)
Powerfist
Flamer
MultiMelta
Rhino

Troops Tac Squad (10)
Powerfist
Flamer
MultiMelta
Rhino

Heavy Predator
Autocannon
Laz Sponsons

Heavy Predator
Autocannon
Laz Sponsons

Heavy Vindicator
Siege Shield
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Re: WargamesCon List

Post  Man-of-War on Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:47 am

I think your doing good with an all around list there....
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Re: WargamesCon List

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