Cheese and Competitiveness

Can someone explain the difference between the two?

com·pet·i·tive/kəmˈpetətiv/
Adjective:

1. Of, relating to, or characterized by competition.
2. Having or displaying a strong desire to be more successful than others: "she had a competitive streak".

cheese/cheez
noun:
1. The curd of milk separated from the whey and prepared in many ways as a food.


I like cheese.

Mmm pepperjack

lol u guys are silly

Competitive is a state of mind that a person comes in whenever he wants to beat the opponent whomever that maybe... Just about every gamer I know has a competitive streak, but mine is with a sense of honor... Like if someone where to come up to me and say they are the best fighting game player for example.... It would weigh so much on my honor that I must best or blow away this opponent through seer acts of voilence on this game. Which is really hard for me to be competitive with 40k... A fact that I'm trying to remedy...

Cheese when 40k is concerned is your bread and butter for your army.... a.k.a. long fangs and grey hunters for space wolves, fast vehicles and sanguinary priests for blood angels, Ork Lootas, Tyranid tervagons for baby making, Necron gauss weapons against vehicles, Lance weapons with both eldar races, poisoned weapons for dark eldar ant- infantry, the list can go on and on throughout the races of 40k.... Really whatever works well and gets the job done effectively... If it gets it done without a risk to the squad/creature/walker/vehicle then that's when you see whiner babies online scream "OP".

Also another thing.... I like cheddar LMAO.....

cheese is the abuse of one strategy IMO. but lets be real here that's what they do in the fluff thats what you do in game. Play to your strengths yes?

You mean abuse of one strategy as in cookie cutter list(same list played over and over again).... Or abuse of 1 strategy as in a staple in your lists for an army?

Playing to your strengths of your army is what everyone does... I mean you don't see IG or tau rushing to get into hand to hand lmao.... That's because their strength is shooty death so you right....

I've found that using close to the same list takes the game to a higher level because I can then focus on playing competitively. No one plays any table top game specifically to lose. It's more about are you going to be a douche so you can win. I think cheese armies are just taking the best units and using them to win. Therefore any army can be called cheesy (60 genestealer, 5 purified units, BA razorspam, Ect). An army cannot win the game no matter how good the list is. It has to have a good player behind it.

I think the tournament crowd is a tiny, tiny fraction of Warhammer players with an extremely loud voice. The win at all costs (WAAC) mentality appears prevalent because the ultimate goal of a tournament is overall victory. Using terms like "fluff bunny" or some other derogatory term to describe non-competitive players adds to resentment of competitive players. Ultimately, it's a game and you can get out of it whatever you want. As for cheese, a major part of the hobby for me is collecting a complete army with at least one of each unit represented. My main army has always been orks, and the best games are always when things go horribly wrong in a humorous way.

I prefer campaigns and story line games, but i do enjoy playing tournaments and winning even but my passion really comes in painting and the fluff

Well I like cracking skulls just as the next person does in this game does..... and in my belief there is a difference in a WAAC/power gamer, competitive gamer, and fluff/campaign/collector gamer.... the hybrid between the two polar opposites is the competitive gamer.... which I know I am... Honestly I don't care less if I win or lose in this game though. Winning is like a drug and losing is a humbling experience for me cause in the end it's just a game. No one likes losing, but I take losing as a learning experience and treat it as such without getting angry. Also if you win all the time no one not even newbies to this game will like playing against you in the long run... So I'd take that to heart for you WAAC/power gamer mentality guys if there are any in this group... I used to be that way back when I used to be a shark on the pool table for money a couple years back before I started this game... You can't attract new people in this game by beating their skulls in every time... Just like a couple months back a guy that was a new guy was playing wolves and was in the tournament and no one took the time out to help this guy simply because this was a tournament... "Ohhhhh ahhhh fresh meat.... Free points" is what I seen in a bunch of peoples eyes that plays here in that tournament and you can't tell me different because I know some people took advantage of him, cause when I played against him he said I was the only one that took the time to help him learn the game....... "NOW WHAT DOES THAT SAY FOR OUR CLUB AS A WHOLE GUYS?!!!". I know that some of the people that does this aren't on this site, but still... I was ashamed that this happened because that prevents this club from growing..... which I do believe is what all you guys want is for this club to grow right.

my point exactly winning isnt always the way to go
its a game and u should enjoy it
i remember first time i played in the tournament i was wipe out first turn and then i wanted to quit
it made me feel like i wasnt good enough

I'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone here..... I'm just bringing up valid points that I seen in this club as a whole. I can see both sides of the coin because I was treated the same when I first started this game... I had my face smashed by a veteran player that carried himself like he was my better... If it was anyone else than me they would have probably quit right there, but I'm a unique individual. You beat my face in and then it will become my obsession to be the best from then on for some reason... Dunno why probably my competitive streak in me kicking in on that.

Cheese is pretty much when your army has so many special rules that defy the standard rules that you are actually taking more time out of the actual game play to enact said special rules than a normal army should. I'm looking at you Eldar... and necrons to a certain degree. I just haven't been on the recieving end of a nercron cheese graider yet.

It's rough. I lost to a GOOD FLUFFY necron list. Not a scarab farm, or 9 spiders and 3 c'tan. It was a competitive game, but. I had a great time.

I think the thing I love about warhammer is that you can have so many different types of gamers. IE tourney gamers, fluffy gamers, social gamers, and modelers.
I myself like to think of myself as a modeler/fluff gamer who likes to win all joking aside cause I know you guys are thinking it. Everyone loves to win but as I said in CKO's tactics article sometimes the cost of winning is someone else's fun.

ooooooh whats smell
its a stinky cheese going about here
[JOKING]

Cheese = Obliterators

Seriously though... Cheese, for me, is the guy at the club who keeps selling his latest army to jump on the bandwagon of the NEW "hardest to kill, best" army. There is one guy who has owned IG, Wolves, Blood Angels and is currently on Grey Knight with no painting completed. Hey, if that's what floats his boat... but for me... chhhheeeessssseeeeey.

Message of the day... Paint your stuff!

I take offense to that sir. I've been playing grey knights for over a year now and still haven't painted my models. :p

Well if swapping armies makes people cheesy then anyone who has played the game a while is super cheese by your standards. I personally have been through quite a few armies but does that make me cheesy or just trying to find what works best for me? And band wagoners they may be but if you know what they say he who has the biggest stick wins . new codex's are always a bit stronger than the last. And at the end of the day that's more $$$ in GW pocket means 40k stays around that much longer lol

Let me join the conversation!

I have thought about this for a long time and I have come to the conclusion that cheese is your tourny list. Whatever your tournament list maybe it is your version of cheese. The problem is not having cheese but when you decide to use your cheese. If you are not playtesting for a tournament or in a tournament and you are using cheese than something is wrong with you. No one should use cheese in a friendly game, why there is no point. Use a new unit, try something different relax enjoy yourself play someone else who is using different units dont give a about who wins enjoy the game.

With that being said, when it comes to tournaments, bring on the cheese! I dont care what kind of cheese it is Kenpachi likes it all! There is no way you can tell a player who has paid money and driven I dont know how far to not use his cheese and to play just for fun! I know it sounds harsh, but if someone wants to play just for fun, couldnt they do that for free. People play in tournaments to have fun and test their skills using their cheese.

Wait a minute I am not saying people should be asses to each other as that is not the case. We all know that we have rules lawyers who enforce every single rule even if it is for 1/2 a inch! I hate to say it but if you put yourself in that environment you have to prepare yourself to face people who enforce the rules like religious extremist. Do they make the game less enjoyable yes, but it makes victory against them taste even cheeser.

Thats why I named the thread cheese and competiveness, because they are one of the same. You really cant complain about cheese when your cheese is just as cheesy. If you think you cannot have fun with a cheesy list than dont expect to do well at tournaments.

Its almost like a trade off waac players will never get the thrill of the other parts of the hobby and non competitive players will never get the thrill of tournaments. Both have the potential to do and enjoy both but it requires time and effort like all things.

haha

Didn't mean to offend. Prbly just THAT guy not everyone.

Still... time to take out that Silver Spray can and get some some color on those grey knights :p

I bought most of it already painted. lol My paladins need a good painting and some green stuff here and there, then all good to go.