Space Marine troopers

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Space Marine troopers

Post  grots life on Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:05 am

I'm looking at Tactical Squads, Assault Squads and Vanguard and Sternguard Veteran Squads and I just don't see the difference between any of them other than what special weapons the sergeant can bring. Furthermore, why would anyone equip jump packs when you can lose them and add a rhino and get better protection and added shooting?
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Re: Space Marine troopers

Post  EmeraldWolf on Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:50 pm

Deep strike Smile
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Re: Space Marine troopers

Post  kelmar40k on Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:52 pm

I’ll go with Vanilla Codex as that is what I play.

Tactical Squad = Scoring so you have to have them.

Tac Squad can get Power Weapon, Assault Power Gun and Heavy Weapon per 10 man squad. You can then split this squad via Combat Squad and drop half of them in a Rhino or Razorback while the Heavy Weapon team hangs back with its Rocket Launcher, Lazcannon or Plasma Cannon. This is THE scoring Unit for Vanilla.

Assault Squad (For Vanilla) are just not that great. Yes, they can be used but no they don’t fit into just any list. You can get the plasma pistol happiness for them and power weapon on Sgt but throwing them in a Rhino or Razorback is a west since they’re not Assault Vehicles. The only use I can think up for them in Vanilla is harassment of stationary units like Lootas, Devastator Squads.. etc. If you are going to use them, please bring 10 per squad.

Vanguard Veterans… Easily the most kitted out unit in the game… and they suck. Why? Overcosted for what can be done better by another unit. Yes, you can give them TH/SS but you are doing so at WAY more than 40 points ( a la terminator) and they have no 2+3++. Whopping fail. Just skip them.

Sternguard are an odd case for me. Their biggest draw is the special ammunition of Hellfire Rounds which wounds on 2+. Their second biggest is that the entire squad can have combi weapons for 5 points per. 50 points for 10 meltagun shots out of a drop pod? Yes, please. 50 for 20 plasma guns shots out of a drop pod onto something? Again, yes please. If you HQ with Pedro Kantor then they count as scoring!

The drawback is price (which isn’t unfair in the least) of 250 for a squad of 10. You will need to throw a transport their way so add in 35 points and might as well tack on 50 for combis. So you have a 335 point unit with no invulnerable save and no real CC value (regardless of 2 attacks per.) They are HIGH priority targets that will get killed in CC with any kind of power weapon. So for 335, why not add 65 points and bring 10 TH/SS terminators?

I am still trying to find a way to play Sternguard and own with them but every time I try, they encounter death cult assassins, Khorne Berserkers, terminators, Inccubi and what not and they go up in smoke due to no invuln.
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Re: Space Marine troopers

Post  HereticWolf on Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:58 pm

Well in blood angels with DoA ASM w/ jump pack are great ! And ASM W/O JP get rhinos and razors cheaper
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Re: Space Marine troopers

Post  CKO on Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:07 pm

You kinda pay for it because your assault squads are 10 points more expensive to start off with, but Blood Angels assault squads can take meltaguns which by itself makes them good and fast razors are really good also.
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Re: Space Marine troopers

Post  Man-of-War on Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:12 pm

The difference between Vanguard, sternguard, Assault, and regular tactical marines is just stats and what they can be equipped with.

For sternguard I seen people buy some sort of forgeworld pattern bolters to resemble them having access to the different types of bolts.

The reason everyone bellyaches about vanguard is because in vanilla marines they do suck if you add jumppacks or you kit them out all the way, but for Blood Angels I used them before as a suicide unit of 5 guys to jump in with DoA and get the surprise on people. It does work cause they usually kill whatever they assault if you land them within the sanguinary priests radius with using their heroic entervention plus they are a distraction for the enemy.

Regular assault marines don't really work for vanilla codex though. For blood angels like CKO said they are good.

I think that Vanilla got the short end of the stick with alot of things, but they do get the choice to fall back if you don't take a chapter tactics character. That's going along with Guillimans way of war, which I have to say is pretty good. I've prevented charges with a combat tactics withdraw, I've seen my enemies do that as well. Which is a real strongpoint in the codex besides the characters.
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Re: Space Marine troopers

Post  CKO on Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:41 pm

Guiliman was nice but it was Dorn who was asked to build the defenses of Terra! I lost combat in a game sunday by 7 and because of stubborn (Chapter Master aka Dorn aka Lysander) stayed in the fight and my Terminators were able to charge my turn to win the combat! Every Chapter has its perks you just have to learn how to use them correctly and make your primarch proud!
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Re: Space Marine troopers

Post  grots life on Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:01 pm

I just don't see the purpose of marines. If they are only good because they allow you to bring a cheap vehicle with a big gun on it, why even bother playing? Just get Flames of War and play all tank battles.
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Re: Space Marine troopers

Post  kelmar40k on Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:35 am

They are good.

They excel at shooting rather than CC though. The problem (not really) with CC is that everyone and their monkey has power weapons which will eat through the 3+ marines and MEQs.

Marines are at their deadliest at 12" which is also next turn assault range for your opponent. My army currently is bringing around 40 tactical marines and 10 terminators. It is a lot to chew through without them being out of their transports and my opponent having mass pie plates.

Again, they are the backbone. Nothing special, not too durable jack of all trade units.
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Re: Space Marine troopers

Post  Man-of-War on Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:42 am

CKO wrote:Guiliman was nice but it was Dorn who was asked to build the defenses of Terra! I lost combat in a game sunday by 7 and because of stubborn (Chapter Master aka Dorn aka Lysander) stayed in the fight and my Terminators were able to charge my turn to win the combat! Every Chapter has its perks you just have to learn how to use them correctly and make your primarch proud!

True and stubborn does work in some instances.

You can do the same with sicarius with his rights of battle using his Ld instead of your units own for morale. Plus sicarius is cheaper and gives a tactical squad some special ability.

I've tried Pedro Kantor and Lysander. I'm not really a fan of stubborn. Especially when your charged by a big beasty that wins combat and you don't need to be 'stuck in' with. That's just my opinion though.
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Re: Space Marine troopers

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