Stronghold Assault and Escalation - Looks like some new rules are out, lets see how they pan out

Got my copies of these yesterday and so far as a fluff player  i love the way they are written and the direction they are going.  From a competitive stand point we will have to see, Games Workshop has been coming out with alot of new books, but for me i love that it adds more customizing to the game.  But let the discussions begin

here is some talk from BOLS
Enjoy

The loud noise you just heard was the sky, falling.

Basic summary for those who don't have the rules: Escalation allows you to take a single "Lord of War" in normal games of 40k. No points restriction. All the same rules as in apocalypse. D weapons are in, at full power.

There are going to be questions about how "official" this is. There's nothing whatsoever in the book to suggest it is anything less than an addition to the core rules of 40k. Of course, you can choose whether or not to use it but the word "optional" does not appear anywhere.

What you do get is a VP for every 3 hps you cause to a super-heavy or gargantuan creature. So 2-4 bonus VPs for killing the thing. Of course, the significance of this varies a whole lot, depending on how many other vps are available. A super-heavy is a liability in the relic, where it's very difficult to get points, but not much of an issue in the scouring. They don't score though, ever.

A lot of attention is going to focus on D weapons, and rightly so. Personally I think this is where I'd draw the line if I were organising a game. They basically just remove the target from play. Part of me is kind of pleased by this to be honest, as it means silly things like screamer councils become a lot less viable when a revenant titan can just tell you to take it off the board. They gave the thing 4 destroyer pie plates a turn, with effectively infinite range, and it can move itself 36" if it wants. This thing is a proper titan of at least a warhound's power level, but you can happily field it in a 1500 point game if you want to.

On the other end of the scale there are a few fairly useless super-heavies. I really can't see much point in taking a tiger shark, which weighs in at over 500 points for not very much firepower at all and some gun drones you could have just bought if you really wanted them - which you probably don't. So the Tau get stiffed a bit, to choruses of "Cry me a river".

The thunderhawk is a bit dubious as well I think. Well, it's very effective against ground targets, especially if it takes a turbo laser (which I expect nearly everyone will do) but it's hampered by the rules forcing it to either skyfire or not. There isn't an exception to that rule for super-heavy flyers, so if it wants to fire at planes it doesn't fire its main gun at all. It isn't fantastic against planes either, though with a couple of lascannons and 4 one-shot missiles it will do real damage. Heavy bolters aren't really powerful enough to defend it against other flyers. It does have the ability to carry a bunch of marines around, but as with other flying transports the problem is they could have got there already by the time it shows up from reserve.

IG get all their big tanks, most of which are good. The shadowsword is obviously the best option for fighting other super-heavies but on this occasion I'm not totally sure it's the best option overall. You could argue a case for a hellhammer, since its main gun is 7" blast S10 ap1 ignore cover, which is nasty, and it's backed up by a demolisher. The stormlord can be used as an assault transport for a blob squad, which is pretty cool, though probably unnecessary, and its mega bolter is frightening. Thing is, you do just come back to that volcano cannon and it's hard to turn down the D. S10 ap1 ignores cover is still not as good, except possibly against multi-wound T5 targets - few of which exist. Weirdly, super-heavy tanks can move 12" and fire all their guns nowadays. Have to say I find this really bizarre, but one effect of it is that heavy flamer sponsons become a pretty good option.

A really key defence against super-heavies is going to be fielding flyers. Mostly, super-heavies seem to like to throw big pie plates around, which your planes will ignore. This allows the planes to kill the enemy troops, take a few hps off the super-heavy and win even if nothing else is around. Drop pods full of sternguard are likely to be popular too. Crypteks retain the ability to switch off vehicles and that works on super-heavies too, and I think they will need to take it. Belakor will take apart a gargantuan creature if he can get next to it and has the book cast on him, as fleshbane still works on them (though poison and sniper only wound on a 6).

In most cases these things cost tons of points so hopefully you won't see them all that much in normal games. That's not always the case though as the ones closer to 500 points seem pretty viable to me. That definitely changes the game as we will need to find ways to fight these massive things with 9 hps, armour 14 and no tendency to explode. I hope we figure something out!

For the most part I think super-heavies should be a fun addition in games of 2000 points and up. If they'd given us this instead of double FOC, I'd be happy. Seeing the first titan walk into normal games of 40k is a pretty major event I suppose. The issue I have is that, more and more, a space marine with a bolt gun has stopped being a badass and just looks like a victim.

Of all the new things I expect to see the IG ones most. They complement the existing army they come from, they don't cost loads of points or money (compared to 500 points of other IG stuff) and they are good all-rounders. So it will be pretty straightforward to build an actual army around an IG super-heavy. I don't think they'll ruin the game either - even the shadowsword, which while it does pack a destroyer gun gets only one shot and with a 5" blast. That's sort of reasonable. I think the others will appear though, and basically everyone but Tau got something. I'm not hugely looking forward to seeing Revenants on the field but if it stops screamer councils and riptide spam... maybe.

Anyway it's not going to be the same from now on. It's like lizard and Spock were just introduced.

I absolutely love it, it adds so much more narrative variety to the game. From a competative standpoint, I think it helps with the cookie cutter lists that we see everywhere, and it will also speed games up A WHOLE LOT, which is awesome. All in all, if T.O's allow it at tournaments, I will be a happy man indeed.

but i dont like the fact big gun be played in normal tourney as they should stay in apoch only

stats are the same, and the d weapons are allowed [they are the same]which is why i quit playing apoch. d weapon too strong, but that is my opinion, everyone has there own

Got this on on BOLS
Looks like some good info

The loud noise you just heard was the sky, falling.

Basic summary for those who don't have the rules: Escalation allows you to take a single "Lord of War" in normal games of 40k. No points restriction. All the same rules as in apocalypse. D weapons are in, at full power.

There are going to be questions about how "official" this is. There's nothing whatsoever in the book to suggest it is anything less than an addition to the core rules of 40k. Of course, you can choose whether or not to use it but the word "optional" does not appear anywhere.

What you do get is a VP for every 3 hps you cause to a super-heavy or gargantuan creature. So 2-4 bonus VPs for killing the thing. Of course, the significance of this varies a whole lot, depending on how many other vps are available. A super-heavy is a liability in the relic, where it's very difficult to get points, but not much of an issue in the scouring. They don't score though, ever.

A lot of attention is going to focus on D weapons, and rightly so. Personally I think this is where I'd draw the line if I were organising a game. They basically just remove the target from play. Part of me is kind of pleased by this to be honest, as it means silly things like screamer councils become a lot less viable when a revenant titan can just tell you to take it off the board. They gave the thing 4 destroyer pie plates a turn, with effectively infinite range, and it can move itself 36" if it wants. This thing is a proper titan of at least a warhound's power level, but you can happily field it in a 1500 point game if you want to.

On the other end of the scale there are a few fairly useless super-heavies. I really can't see much point in taking a tiger shark, which weighs in at over 500 points for not very much firepower at all and some gun drones you could have just bought if you really wanted them - which you probably don't. So the Tau get stiffed a bit, to choruses of "Cry me a river".

The thunderhawk is a bit dubious as well I think. Well, it's very effective against ground targets, especially if it takes a turbo laser (which I expect nearly everyone will do) but it's hampered by the rules forcing it to either skyfire or not. There isn't an exception to that rule for super-heavy flyers, so if it wants to fire at planes it doesn't fire its main gun at all. It isn't fantastic against planes either, though with a couple of lascannons and 4 one-shot missiles it will do real damage. Heavy bolters aren't really powerful enough to defend it against other flyers. It does have the ability to carry a bunch of marines around, but as with other flying transports the problem is they could have got there already by the time it shows up from reserve.

IG get all their big tanks, most of which are good. The shadowsword is obviously the best option for fighting other super-heavies but on this occasion I'm not totally sure it's the best option overall. You could argue a case for a hellhammer, since its main gun is 7" blast S10 ap1 ignore cover, which is nasty, and it's backed up by a demolisher. The stormlord can be used as an assault transport for a blob squad, which is pretty cool, though probably unnecessary, and its mega bolter is frightening. Thing is, you do just come back to that volcano cannon and it's hard to turn down the D. S10 ap1 ignores cover is still not as good, except possibly against multi-wound T5 targets - few of which exist. Weirdly, super-heavy tanks can move 12" and fire all their guns nowadays. Have to say I find this really bizarre, but one effect of it is that heavy flamer sponsons become a pretty good option.

A really key defence against super-heavies is going to be fielding flyers. Mostly, super-heavies seem to like to throw big pie plates around, which your planes will ignore. This allows the planes to kill the enemy troops, take a few hps off the super-heavy and win even if nothing else is around. Drop pods full of sternguard are likely to be popular too. Crypteks retain the ability to switch off vehicles and that works on super-heavies too, and I think they will need to take it. Belakor will take apart a gargantuan creature if he can get next to it and has the book cast on him, as fleshbane still works on them (though poison and sniper only wound on a 6).

In most cases these things cost tons of points so hopefully you won't see them all that much in normal games. That's not always the case though as the ones closer to 500 points seem pretty viable to me. That definitely changes the game as we will need to find ways to fight these massive things with 9 hps, armour 14 and no tendency to explode. I hope we figure something out!

For the most part I think super-heavies should be a fun addition in games of 2000 points and up. If they'd given us this instead of double FOC, I'd be happy. Seeing the first titan walk into normal games of 40k is a pretty major event I suppose. The issue I have is that, more and more, a space marine with a bolt gun has stopped being a badass and just looks like a victim.

Of all the new things I expect to see the IG ones most. They complement the existing army they come from, they don't cost loads of points or money (compared to 500 points of other IG stuff) and they are good all-rounders. So it will be pretty straightforward to build an actual army around an IG super-heavy. I don't think they'll ruin the game either - even the shadowsword, which while it does pack a destroyer gun gets only one shot and with a 5" blast. That's sort of reasonable. I think the others will appear though, and basically everyone but Tau got something. I'm not hugely looking forward to seeing Revenants on the field but if it stops screamer councils and riptide spam... maybe.

Anyway it's not going to be the same from now on. It's like lizard and Spock were just introduced.