Chad Ask Steve For Help!!!!!!!!!!

ATTENTION PLEASE LET STEVE BE THE FIRST TO RESPOND TO THIS TOPIC

This thread is going to be an eye opener for alot of players. This is the first time that I will actually explain my list, so this will undoubtly turn into a huge tactic discussion between Steve and I. The conversation that Steve and I am about to partake in is going to show the average player just how detail oriented and how prepared players of our caliber are when you face us.

Some of you will not understand this as it relates to an anime called Bleach, and I will make several references to it but just ignore it. This conversation is a Captains Meeting. I am not sure what you have but I know that Steve has Bankai, after reading the conversation, I want you to ask yourself am I like that? Do I think that deep into it? Do I have that same confidence? Do you truly understand the conversation?

If not dont worry about it, its a game you dont want to waste that much time, money, and energy into. If you are having fun thats all that matters. Steve and I are not WAAC players its just that we love the satisfication that comes with winning after countless hours of studying codexes. To give you an example of what we do we spend 1-3 hours trying to figure out what to do with 30 points on army builder.

Steve, I dont need you to pimp my list but I respect you as the better list builder and I need you to grade my list and make suggestions? I humbly ask you to grade my list?

Before you look at the list I would like to thank you Steve because I literally edited my list several times. You let me know that my list was not good enough, I was settling for less and you didnt want me to do that, and I thank you for it. You have help alot of players in our gaming group and if I get help maybe that is the last thing I need to finish 1st and not just in the top 10 or 5. I want this list to be good I plan on dominating 6th edition with this list the same way Kopach dominated 5th edition with his wolves.

Another Bleach reference I am Kenpachi I am powerful enough to win without a Bankai and be a Captain but if someone were to teach me Bankai there is no telling how great I can be!

1999

HQ
Thor ( Cortez)

Grand Master Psycannon Force Sword Blind Grenades(defensive grenades)

Elite
5x Paladin Squad 1xPsycannon Halberd, 1xPsycannon Hammer, 1xHammer, 2xHalberds

Troops
7x Henchman Squad 3xCrusaders (Power Axe) 4xDeath Cult Assassin (Power Axe, Power Sword)

7x Henchman Squad 3xCrusaders (Power Axe) 4xDeath Cult Assassin (Power Axe, Power Sword)

3x Henchman Squad 3xAcolytes Razorback TL Assault Cannon Psybolt Ammo

3x Henchman Squad 3xAcolytes Razorback TL Assault Cannon Psybolt Ammo

Fast Attack
Stormraven Gunship TL Assault Cannon TL Multi-melta Hurricane Bolters Psybolt Ammo

Stormraven Gunship TL Assault Cannon TL Multi-melta Hurricane Bolters Psybolt Ammo

Heavy Support
DreadKnight Heavy Incinerator Greatsword Teleporter

Dreadknight Heavy Incinerator Greatsword

Steve tell me the reason and explain why its better I will buy the unit pay to get it painted and test it that is how much I value your opinion.

Time to explain my list, BANKAI!

The main reason I pick Cortez is because he is cheap and he makes henchman squads troops for five hundred points I got him and 4 troop units. He also is really good he is joining my deathstar unit giving them stubbon and he makes them alot more dangerous with his psychic powers. Most people do not know that he gets 2 powers and he is master level 2 so he can use both powers each turn. I will be using divination and getting prescience and 1 more, any of the first 4 will work. He has a 2+ save so he is not out of place with my paladins.

I picked the Grand Master because of Grand Strategy, he turns the paladin squad and the dreadknights into scoring units I have 3 units that can become scoring units and I get a d3. I gave him a psycannon so that I can have a grand total of 3 in my death star unit, he has the sword because I want the 3+ inv save for challenges. The blind grenades make the death star unit harder to kill.

The paladin unit is my death star unit 3 psycannons, plus a handful of str 4 shots and possible large blast template if close enough. This unit can become scoring and it is versatile they can shoot you, 12 twin linked psycannon shots is painful even to flyers. If I get misfortune I basically have guide and doom in a grey knight codex and if I get perfect timing I can eat up large blob squads. Or if I get foreboding if you charge me I get counter attack, I have defensive grenades no extra attack, and you have to go through 12 psycannon shots fired at balistic skill 4 and 6 for the grand master. Than you have to worry about hammerhead, I can have str 6 power weapon attacks re-roll to hit. Or I can give them a 4+ inv save with the other psychic power, either way the death star unit will cause damage.

The crusaders and assassins go in the storm raven. They are a scoring unit that only cost 105 and they will beat the crap out of others people scoring units in cc. Last turn they get out and charge a unit off of an objective. The crusaders are there for survivability.

The two razorback units are for anti-tank purposes, 4 tl str 7 rending shots is good for 97 points.

The two nemesis dreadknight are really good, heavy incinerator are my main source of anti-infantry. The teleporter knight is what I use to force my opponent to make a mistake. They also can become scoring and they are tough to kill.

The Stormravens are the true monsters in my list against other flyers 12 str 5 shots and 4 str 7 shots all twin-linked should glance a flyer down, plus I can use the multi-melta to shoot another flyer. Each one can take out 2 flyers a turn or harrass an infantry unit with all the dakka and aim for a vehicle with the multi-melta. The mindstrike missiles is also a shocker, now that perils of warp is a wound without a save any psyker I go up against will get hit with mindstrike missiles. Njal has 2 wounds I have 8 mindstrike missiles, tervigons, swarmlord eldrad, the list goes on I have an answer for psykers. So these guys take care of psykers, flyers, and they carry a cc unit. I also can manipulate when they come in with psychic communion.

There you have it, my final list I cant wait to play with it!

What grade do you give it Steve?

First, thanks for the compliments. Here is what I have for you and why. Sixth edition is all about scoring units. Look at all of the scenarios. If you want to score points, you have to capture objectives. So I brought you from 4 scoring units to 9. In doing so I had to remove the paladins but replaced them with a 50 man infantry unit which is (in my opinion) more deadly, more survivable, cheaper, grants board control, and able to capture more objectives. The Lord Commissar keeps the unit alive and lets you deny challenges to let your power axes attack each turn. Marbo is in there for Long Fangs, hidden scoring units, etc. ALWAYS PLAY MARBO. I cannot state this enough. He is 65 points of badass.

Next I increased your flyers to 3. This allows for more mobility, firepower, survivability, and mobile scoring units. Notice the crusaders were bumped to 4 and the assassins were dropped to 3. This is to make the unit more able to survive a crash with the storm shields. Your henchmen units were increased to 6 and all given twin linked heavy bolters with psy ammo. Stay out of plasma rifle shots and fire away at 36" range while flanking and grabbing objectives. They are to survive and score points/objectives. That is all. I removed the dreadknight without the teleporter due to lack of mobility and the need for the scoring units. However, look at the overall number of power axes in the army compared to the original list. It went from 14 to 19, added 6 melta bombs, a demo charge, 3 flamers, 4 psy ammo heavy bolters, 3 twin lascannons, a commissar, 67 scoring models, and infantry orders. All you lost were the 5 paladins and the dreadknight. Not too shabby.

HQ
Cortez (Place with Crusader/Assassin unit)
Lord Commissar (Place with 50 man infantry unit for survivability)

Elite
Guardsmen Marbo

Troops
7x Henchman Squad 4xCrusaders (Power Axe) 3xDeath Cult Assassin (Power Axe, Power Sword)
7x Henchman Squad 4xCrusaders (Power Axe) 3xDeath Cult Assassin (Power Axe, Power Sword)
3x Henchman Squad 3xAcolytes Razorback TL Heavy Bolter Psybolt Ammo
3x Henchman Squad 3xAcolytes Razorback TL Heavy Bolter Psybolt Ammo
3x Henchman Squad 3xAcolytes Razorback TL Heavy Bolter Psybolt Ammo
3x Henchman Squad 3xAcolytes Razorback TL Heavy Bolter Psybolt Ammo
Platoon Command Squad...no upgrades
50 man Infantry unit with 5 power axes and 5 meltabombs
6 man special weapon squad with 3 flamers

Fast Attack
Stormraven Gunship TL Assault Cannon TL Multi-melta Hurricane Bolters Psybolt Ammo
Stormraven Gunship TL Assault Cannon TL Multi-melta Hurricane Bolters Psybolt Ammo
Vendetta with 3 twin linked lascannons

Heavy Support
DreadKnight Heavy Incinerator Greatsword Teleporter

There you go man. Try this out and tell me what you think. It is not as flashy as a paladin unit but more survivable, more shooting, more mobility, more scoring models/units, more long range, more anti infantry, more anti tank, more power axes, MORE PIMPED!

I love the list but I edited it a small amount.

HQ
Cortez (Thor)

Command Squad (Officer Fleet)

Elite
7xPsykers (IG)

Fast Attack
Stormraven TL Assault Cannon TL Multi-Melta Hurricane Bolters Psybolt Ammo

Stormraven TL Assault Cannon TL Multi-Melta Hurricane Bolters Psybolt Ammo

Vendetta

Troops
7xDeath Cult Assassins

7xDeath Cult Assassins

3xHenchman Squad 3xAcolytes Razorback TL Heavy Bolter Psybolt Ammo

3xHenchman Squad 3xAcolytes Razorback TL Heavy Bolter Psybolt Ammo

3xHenchman Squad 3xAcolytes Razorback TL Heavy Bolter Psybolt Ammo

3xHenchman Squad 3xAcolytes Razorback TL Heavy Bolter Psybolt Ammo

PCS 4xFlamers
Infantry Squad Commissar Krak Grenades Serg Power Axe
Infantry Squad Krak Grenades Serg Power Axe
Infantry Squad Krak Grenades Serg Power Axe
Infantry Squad Krak Grenades Serg Power Axe

Heavy Support
DreadKnight Heavy Incinerator Greatsword Personal Teleporter

Heretic Steve wrote:First, thanks for the compliments. Here is what I have for you and why. Sixth edition is all about scoring units. Look at all of the scenarios. If you want to score points, you have to capture objectives.

I am agressive, I want to destroy stuff, but I understand your point of view and I kept the same number of scoring of units.

Heretic Steve wrote:So I brought you from 4 scoring units to 9. In doing so I had to remove the paladins but replaced them with a 50 man infantry unit which is (in my opinion) more deadly, more survivable, cheaper, grants board control, and able to capture more objectives.

More survivable, cheaper, board control and able to capture more objectives but its not more deadly.I did not understand the meltabombs why not krak grenades on all 40 compared to a handfull of meltabombs. 40 is just as good in my opinion.

Heretic Steve wrote:The Lord Commissar keeps the unit alive and lets you deny challenges to let your power axes attack each turn. Marbo is in there for Long Fangs, hidden scoring units, etc. ALWAYS PLAY MARBO. I cannot state this enough. He is 65 points of badass.

If I am playing guard I am taking an Officer of Fleet the ability to force all flyers to come in on a 4+ is huge.
Marbo is good and he does all of those things but compared to an IG Psyker squad I can do alot more with them.

Heretic Steve wrote:Next I increased your flyers to 3. This allows for more mobility, firepower, survivability, and mobile scoring units. Notice the crusaders were bumped to 4 and the assassins were dropped to 3. This is to make the unit more able to survive a crash with the storm shields. Your henchmen units were increased to 6 and all given twin linked heavy bolters with psy ammo. Stay out of plasma rifle shots and fire away at 36" range while flanking and grabbing objectives. They are to survive and score points/objectives.

I cant argue with getting a vendetta. Now that I have the blob squad and the razorbacks I feel that the stormravens can become a cc specialist unit. They surviving is no longer as important now that I have so many scorng units. I love the dakka backs I can see me slowly eating away at squads, especially when the stormravens come in I can put alot of dakka on any unit I choose.

Heretic Steve wrote:That is all. I removed the dreadknight without the teleporter due to lack of mobility and the need for the scoring units. However, look at the overall number of power axes in the army compared to the original list. It went from 14 to 19, added 6 melta bombs, a demo charge, 3 flamers, 4 psy ammo heavy bolters, 3 twin lascannons, a commissar, 67 scoring models, and infantry orders. All you lost were the 5 paladins and the dreadknight. Not too shabby.

You removed the dreadknight, paladins, and the Grandmaster but thats ok. I have never been the one to actually count all the weaponry but the list you gave me is better all I did was add the Kenpachi spiritual pressure to make it more offensive but the changes you made allowed me to get more offensive without worrying about scoring units. Great list cant wait to build it and play it.

How do you feel about my changes?

CKO wrote:How do you feel about my changes?

1. The Infantry blob is now highly less survivable if you remove the Lord Commissar and 10 men.

2. The Meltabombs were used over Krak grenades due to their AP1 and ability to penetrate armor 14. You will have a hard time killing Demolishers, land raiders, monoliths, etc without them. It is also cheaper on the overall point total.

3. The Command Squad with Officer of the fleet did cross my mind but you will get more use from the Lord Commissar. Also, remember that in 6th edition reserves come in easier and faster. This somewhat negates the Officer of the Fleet's usefulness.

4. You removed the crusaders from the henchmen units that ride in the Stormravens. That is bad...mmmmmkay. The crusaders will ensure that the unit survives a crash landing. Also, they keep the assassins alive by absorbing wounds and making storm shield saves.

5. You removed the special weapon triple flamer squad I had mounted in the vendetta. That was to give you another scoring unit and free up your Infantry Command Squad to walk and order around your Infantry Blob. If they get shot at, good, then just go to ground. That means your other, more important units are surviving.

6. You removed Marbo for the psyker battle squad. Meh. This could go either way. However, you will find they will not survive long with their terrible save and low toughness. Marbo can be a game changer. If you are against him, I would add the other 10 guys to your Infantry squad back.

Just my $.02

Yes, we have some slight differences but you have given me a blue print.